. /../Browser Wars/ 1234
written by G89rg on Mar 21, 2006 09:53
Browser Wars
37 members voted in this poll so far
Opera
Firefox
Internet Explorer
Safari
MSNExplorer
Other, (please specify)
Poll Question:
Which browser do you prefere?

Awnser the poll, and feel free to add any comments, (i thaught someone should make a thread on it, seems it is so popular )
└> last changed by G89rg on March 21, 2006 at 11:20
wah... waall-eee
written by Magnulus on Mar 21, 2006 12:04
Add Safari. Safari is the default mac browser, so it should be there.

Personally... well, you all know I'm an Opera user.
"gheeh!" (c)h.azuma
written by Yayo on Mar 21, 2006 17:31
[21-mar-2006: move here from the "we don't care" thread]

I dislike that page about Ffox myth.
(http://mywebpages.comcast.net/SupportCD/FirefoxMyths.html
posted on the "we don't care" thread)

well, I think that if there are a lot of wrong informations about firefox it is good to correct them with the right facts, but not in that way: it seems that firefox is evil..

it's true that also IE can uses extensions, but there are no archives of extensions for IE like the ones that exists for firefox, which lead you to do a LOAD of useful (and perhaps also unuseful) things with your browser.

also saying that IE support tabs.. IF you use MSN toolbar in win XP.. err.. what?!
if you must download an add on this means that IE itself still doesn't allow tabs.
and I use win98se not XP,
so: my IE will probably never use tabs.

that thing about security is widely debatable, for a load of reasons. if you say "this is anything but secure" and then provide numbers of security holes found on THAT application only, it is obvious that it seems to be unsafe. you must provide a comparison table of most used browsers:

Comparison of web browsers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_web_browsers#endnote_IE7

every app has bugs and security holes, but opensource help to fix them quickly, while proprietary software let you no others way than wait for the patch from the developer.
(there is a well know example of a more-than-200days-unpatched security hole in windows)

"Firefox is not 100% Internet Explorer and ActiveX compatible."
Firefor doesn't require to be IE nor activex compatible.
Microsoft is not a standard nor can decide what can be a standard.

again, those lines about w3c have nothing to do with Firefox.

--

that page seems to be a "firefox against the world" page...
yes, FF is not the god of browsers, but is not SO bad..

y.

p.s.
oh, by the way: about that "diskeeper" advertisement on the left of the page: diskeeper is micro$oft gold certified partner. (heh..)
wah... waall-eee
written by Magnulus on Mar 21, 2006 17:40
Argh! You could have said in the other thread, you know. *goes to cut and paste*
hello! :) felysian
written by Hello! :) on Mar 21, 2006 17:40
Opera Smopera, if I didn't have to browse the internet, I wouldn't need a browser.

But anyway... depending on what I am doing, it may effect which browser I use (after reading the "Firefox Myths" page I may go back to IE, due to one particular rendering advantage it has). By the way, I primarly use Firefox.

Try this in the 3 major browsers (the css file and the html file are both valid):
// i.css
#poem 
{
	float: right;
	position: fixed;
	padding: .5em;
	margin: 1em;
	width: 150px;
	text-align: center;
	border: 1px solid red;
}

#content
{
	float: left;
	padding: .5em;
	margin: 1em;
	width: 400px;
	border: 1px solid black;
}
Pictures of what I saw:
cd/pngs/Hello! /firefox (35 Kb) (35kb)
cd/pngs/Hello! /opera (42 Kb) (42kb)
cd/pngs/Hello! /ie (45 Kb) (45kb)
wah... waall-eee
written by Magnulus on Mar 21, 2006 17:42
*cut-n-paste*

written by Magnulus on Mar 21, 2006 17:38

The thing is that Firefox is being glorified to the point of it being nauseating by some of its more eager proponents. This site puts a very fine point to it, but one may argue that it's needed in this case just to get the point across. On the subject of security holes, it DOES mention a comparison. Opera.

Also, in the wikipedia charts, Opera comes out (as far as I can see) as the clear-cut winner, but I might be looking at it wrong. There's also the issue of the security hole numbers being outdated. I mean, Firefox has gone through a lot in two years. What's the status TODAY, I wonder? In any case, the unbiased wikipedia charts clearly show that Firefox certainly isn't a winner. Not even if you include the extension-enabled features.

Personally, I want to install my browser and that's it. Firefox is so clearly a product from the PC generation where you always have to mod and augment things in order to make them usable. It's not something I am too fond of. Maybe that's why I like macs so much. I like my computer and its components to be ready when I set it up. I don't want to have to set a day aside for finding and downloading the latest drivers every time I wipe my harddrive.
"gheeh!" (c)h.azuma
written by Yayo on Mar 21, 2006 18:06
heh.. I wasn't saying that firefox is the best or the winner. simply that is not evil.
it can stay around the middle.
surely can be improved.

and opera is definitely ok! yup!

hello! ,
try also this page:

Paolo Attivissimo - antibufala, Internet per tutti, Da Windows a Linux e altri deliri
http://www.attivissimo.net/diritti/standard_web/

sadly it's only in Italian language.
(note: the background page is a snapshot of the author's cat "biru", dead in a car accident.. poor kitty! sigh..)

y.
absent more than alex
written by Shadowlord on Mar 21, 2006 18:10
Does Opera have flashblock or an equivalent (blocks flash unless you press the 'play' button on the flash thing, or if you unblock that site entirely)? How about Bugmenot, so you can just right click a user/pass form and hit 'bugmenot' to automatically grab bugmenot name/passes and try them until either one works or no more are left?

*slaps Postline*
Postline said:
This may not be your fault, but a post of the same message was submitted TWICE, from your same accound ID: it may happen, so don't worry. Your message was stored, this note is here to inform you that its second copy was already rejected, so you don't have to delete the twin post manually.
It doesn't like it if you post in the wrong thread, delete the post, and then try to repost it in the right one... >_<
wah... waall-eee
written by Magnulus on Mar 21, 2006 18:14
I uploaded the float to www.magnulus.com/float so you can all check it out easily without mucking about.

Yeah, that is an interesting error. Shame it doesn't work. Strange, though, since the version of Opera I'm using passed the ACID2 test, which is supposed to be an indication of whether it supports all web standards.

So is it possible that this floating thing is simply an extra IE feature and not actually a standard? I really don't know. I'm just asking, since both of the two other browsers don't understand it. Of course, both Opera and FF should try to match the IE's range of features, but still... IE is still far from passing the ACID 2, so it may be that MS are spending their time inventing new features rather than supporting old standards.

EDIT: About the Flash thing, I really don't know. I haven't tried. What I DO know is that in Opera 9, you can manually turn off ANY part of any page, which is nice.

EDIT 2: http://www.attivissimo.net/diritti/standard_web/ works purrrfectly here. Really nice effect, I must say.
"gheeh!" (c)h.azuma
written by Yayo on Mar 21, 2006 20:18
yes, that page is shown correctly in Opera and FF too, but not on IE, and it uses CSS to create that effect, so this means that also IE support for CSS must be improved.

hmm.. by the way, I was browsing some news just now, and I found this page:

Microsoft Admits Internet Explorer Mistakes - Yahoo! News
loong url

y.
hello! :) felysian
written by Hello! :) on Mar 21, 2006 20:36
Yayo said:
Microsoft Admits Internet Explorer Mistakes - Yahoo! News
loong url
My opinion: 100% Implementation Compatibility (which would be incredible), then new Features.

If it works 100% (near-)perfect graphically, people can make high quality web pages, and I'd use IE just for that (eat that FF & Opera).
written by Cryoburner on Mar 21, 2006 22:36
Magnulus said:
EDIT 2: http://www.attivissimo.net/diritti/standard_web/ works purrrfectly here. Really nice effect, I must say.
Actually, I just tested it, and that page works perfectly in Internet Explorer. Of course, you'll need IE7 Beta 2, which was released just yesterday. : ) I had beta 1 installed on this system prior to that, and it did fail to render properly, but everything obviously wrong with that page appears to be fixed in this latest version. You'll need to be running WinXP SP2 to install the IE7 beta though. The full version of IE7 will be released later in the year along with Vista, and it will also be available for WinXP SP2, WinXP x64, and Server 2003.

Of course, even though IE7 Beta 2 now renders that page properly, it totally fails the Acid2 test, as can be seen here... : P
cd/pngs/Cryoburner/ie7b2_acid2 (3 Kb)

Shadowlord said:
Does Opera have flashblock or an equivalent (blocks flash unless you press the 'play' button on the flash thing, or if you unblock that site entirely)? How about Bugmenot, so you can just right click a user/pass form and hit 'bugmenot' to automatically grab bugmenot name/passes and try them until either one works or no more are left?
The Opera9 beta includes an option to block content from specific sites, which can include banner ads and flash ads. It also can be viewed in list form, and I'm sure there are premade lists designed to block all major ad sites. A similar feature was in Opera 8 as well, but you had to manually edit a file with a text editor in that version. As for that 'Bugmenot', Opera has a feature called the wand, which lets you save usernames and passwords to sites in encrypted form. It can also save more than one set for a given site and let you select the one you want, in case you have multiple accounts.
"gheeh!" (c)h.azuma
written by Yayo on Mar 21, 2006 22:49
the result of the acid test for FF is bad, but still seems to be better than this one of IE7.

y.
written by Bensel on Mar 22, 2006 03:36
Magnulus said:
Firefox is so clearly a product from the PC generation where you always have to mod and augment things in order to make them usable.
Actually, that's a reason I like Firefox, and how I feel software should be. When I choose a web browser, I want a web browser, not a web browser, download manager, cell phone-mode previewer, IRC client, and bittorrent thing. I can't stand feature creep (Opera is good at controlling it and not going overboard though), and I don't like software that does more than it's meant to.

Anyway, I didn't vote because I use a combination of Opera, Firefox, and other (mostly "light" browsers and text-based ones such as Dillo and links).
written by Ysereh on Mar 22, 2006 06:52
I started to use Opera and now that I've given it a chance I'm beginning to like it. I've noticed no crashes on certain pages that would crash half the time in Firefox, and I also seem to be able to fit more quickly-accessible bookmarks in Opera's "personal" bar. I'm still getting used to it and I am already used to Firefox, so I think I'll probably end up using a combination of both.

Thus I have decided not to vote (yet)...
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