. /../America is not a free.../ 12
written by Zixinus on Oct 30, 2006 19:30
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4312730277175242198&q=freedom+to+fascism

The video is legal, as the auther of it posted it there and by his permission.

I'll find the video shocking.
wah... waall-eee
written by Magnulus on Oct 31, 2006 07:58
Oh yeah, that thing! Seems kind of interesting.
who needs titles?
written by Pomelos on Oct 31, 2006 08:09
I've always loved how libertarians are able to mix up democracy and fascism.

Nah, truly, libertarianism is the funniest thing invented in politics since marxism; I really enjoyed all the cracked-pot theories and the unwavering faith of its zealots.

My only question is: why isn't the title worded "freedom to communism"? Was there a change in libertarian ideology?
written by Stellanaut on Oct 31, 2006 16:40
I also find the video quite shocking. Being a teenager in the U.S., I began to consider more in depth the consequences on my future if the U.S. were to become truely fascist. I generally don't want to run from my problems, but I do have my fingers crossed that people don't allow the U.S. to become a police state.
i haz title: speed-g-dof
written by Speeder on Oct 31, 2006 17:06
Well... I do not know if you people from USA know, but at some countryes the USA is REALLY hated...

I live in Brazil, here we had some real problems with US, the first one was our military depotism time that we had between 1964 and 1990... We discovered that the idea came from USA, worse: during the movment to capture the elected president and put a new one on 1964, we discovered that there was a big amount of U.S. ships on our shores waiting to attack in case of something going wrong (fortunally, or unfortuanally it worked, and we had what we call here as the "lost age")

Brazil, entered on the WW II to help the Americans against the Italians, we've sent a large amount of aircrafts and we managed to be one of the most important air forces in the italy during the war, first we believe that we were heroes, then we discovered that we was only used, since no credit from other allies was given to us, then we discovered that we were not even stupid heroes, just some dogs REALLY used...

We entered in the war, because some "japonese" subs managed to sink many of our warships, recently we discovered that the "japonese" subs was U.S. subs, and that the attack was calculated to make it look like a japonese one and make we join in the war...

Also, in 1990, when a document was released on washington about the neo-liberalist, our idiotic president liked it, and done everything said on the document...

Our market got flooded with U.S. products, and today we have a totally screwed economy, and the tech that we developed was all suddenly overran by (sometimes more poor) U.S. tech, all stores started to use american names(like Uélintoun... that in fact the mother/father tried to copy from Wellington), we got childs with funny names and a broken market...

Then the two most recent facts:

A national rocket exploded in the landing pad, killing ALL engines that we had, we believe first that was a accident, then the people started to blame the americans, and we discovered that there was NUKES hiddin on the spaceport, and in the NON-MILITARY only area...

Then BUSH came here, this caused a stupid "incident"

Students, started to flood the streets in protest against BUSH, and our police like a good police, attacked the students (without a clear reason, since most of them was unarmed)

Result: first, we got rock threw at the cops, and some fireworks shot at them... The cops then shoot back with rubber guns, and someone fired a real firearm...

After the firearm, the cops drawed firearms, the students now REALLY upset drawed molotovs, and in the middle of the fight, a BAZOOKA rocket flyed... fortunally the shooter of the rocket missed (or it was intentional?) and hit nothing important...

After the "war against terrorism" started, and it proved to us that they only wanted pretoleum, and we discovered that we have much more petroleum AND water than we ever imaginated, the people here started to fell like if we are going to be attacked, many people here WANT to see North Korea starting a nuclear war against US, only to do not see the US attacking Brazil first...

Now a cool quote that I do not remember well:

A man, I do not remember who he is exactly, but he was a important researcher, went to NY to talk, after the end of meeting, someone asked him: "Do you want see the freedom statue?" the man replied "No, even because the only freedom that I saw here, was only the statue, and I am no ironic or fool person to see that in person"
rawr
written by Raptorjedi on Oct 31, 2006 17:34
Speeder said:
I live in Brazil, here we had some real problems with US, the first one was our military depotism time that we had between 1964 and 1990... We discovered that the idea came from USA, worse: during the movment to capture the elected president and put a new one on 1964, we discovered that there was a big amount of U.S. ships on our shores waiting to attack in case of something going wrong (fortunally, or unfortuanally it worked, and we had what we call here as the "lost age")

Brazil, entered on the WW II to help the Americans against the Italians, we've sent a large amount of aircrafts and we managed to be one of the most important air forces in the italy during the war, first we believe that we were heroes, then we discovered that we was only used, since no credit from other allies was given to us, then we discovered that we were not even stupid heroes, just some dogs REALLY used...
We entered in the war, because some "japonese" subs managed to sink many of our warships, recently we discovered that the "japonese" subs was U.S. subs, and that the attack was calculated to make it look like a japonese one and make we join in the war...
Amazing I haven't been able to find anything at all about this. Wikipedia hasn't even heard about it. If there was even SPECULATION about it, there would probably be a small mention. As for the president thing, I see no mention of that either, but we did supply money to help a coup.

Speeder said:
Our market got flooded with U.S. products, and today we have a totally screwed economy, and the tech that we developed was all suddenly overran by (sometimes more poor) U.S. tech, all stores started to use american names(like Uélintoun... that in fact the mother/father tried to copy from Wellington), we got childs with funny names and a broken market...
Lets see what Wikipedia has to say, shall we? "The economy still has serious challenges to face and important reforms are still to be implemented. Serious problems involving poor infrastructure, income concentration, low quality public services, corruption, social conflicts and government bureaucracy persist and threaten to hamper economic growth, compared to other emerging countries." Looking at it, over the last few years you guys have had a growth in your economy, it dropped again last year, but still.

Speeder said:
A national rocket exploded in the landing pad, killing ALL engines that we had, we believe first that was a accident, then the people started to blame the americans, and we discovered that there was NUKES hiddin on the spaceport, and in the NON-MILITARY only area...
Sounds like something from a bad futuristic movie that I can't seem to find anything about.

Speeder said:
After the "war against terrorism" started, and it proved to us that they only wanted pretoleum, and we discovered that we have much more petroleum AND water than we ever imaginated, the people here started to fell like if we are going to be attacked, many people here WANT to see North Korea starting a nuclear war against US, only to do not see the US attacking Brazil first...
The US would never outright attack Brazil, no matter how much oil you have. And as for North Korea, their nukes would barely reach Japan, so right now the US is not threatened by them at all, but nice to know your country would like to see mine blown off the map, because I would like to see your countries economy after that, the Great Depression pretty much fucked up everyone. All in all, get your facts straight, and stop bashing the US, because thats not what this thread is about so take it elsewhere.
i haz title: speed-g-dof
written by Speeder on Oct 31, 2006 18:02
I just posted what people here believe as a example, not that I support this =)

Well, we still does not know what happened on many of these things, because the governments since the military one on 1964 hide everything...

and, I made a typo, the exploding rocket does not killed engines, but engineers... x.x

Now our rockets are being developed with help from russion enineers... for some motive US refuses to help us on some matters, including, there are a wierd embargo that does not allow Brazil to buy super-computers, the invention of cluster allowed us to circunvent this... Only the russians allowed us to make a astronaut (or cosmonaut?) fly... And some other things...

There are the american economic block (or something like this, here we call it ALCA) that we fear that our current (and re-elect president) can accept, and it will finish ruining our economy...

Er... I was going to explain the ALCA thing and all, but better stop I do not want to go FAAAAR off-topic...

About the last president that RJ mentioned and made our economy go from poor to worse: he was re-elected... even after 23 or more scandals... I am starting to wonder if brazillians have any moral at all, or they only want money...
meep
written by Naavis on Oct 31, 2006 20:19
Raptorjedi said:
The US would never outright attack Brazil, no matter how much oil you have.
Maybe Brazil is under a terrorist regime and needs to be liberated.

Speeder said:
A national rocket exploded in the landing pad, killing ALL engines that we had, we believe first that was a accident, then the people started to blame the americans, and we discovered that there was NUKES hiddin on the spaceport, and in the NON-MILITARY only area...
What the hell were all the engineers of Brazil doing on a rocket launch pad?
written by Zixinus on Oct 31, 2006 22:22
The whole anti-USA thing SOUNDS very much more as political propaganda, then real facts.

As for the video, well, I'm over the shock and I think that guy is either terribly and precisely right, or went on the conspiracy theory road.
i haz title: speed-g-dof
written by Speeder on Nov 01, 2006 17:22
Well... They was going to try to launch a sat launcher vehicle, they all were on inside the rocket working on it... When something went wrong and... BOOM!

We lost all enineers, the prototype and the landing pad :/
meep
written by Naavis on Nov 02, 2006 20:35
Interesting how there's no mention of it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_space_program You should really double-check before claiming anything. Plus, it sounds really unlikely that ALL engineers of a country would work on one single project.
who needs titles?
written by Pomelos on Nov 02, 2006 22:10
http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/brazil_failure_030823.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_rocket_explosion

Yeah, you really should double-check.
written by Zixinus on Nov 02, 2006 23:21
Lay off the guy please, he only states what people around him think.
written by Cryoburner on Nov 03, 2006 01:34
Speeder said:
Then the two most recent facts:

A national rocket exploded in the landing pad, killing ALL engines that we had, we believe first that was a accident, then the people started to blame the americans, and we discovered that there was NUKES hiddin on the spaceport, and in the NON-MILITARY only area...
What does that rocket exploding have anything to do with some Brazilians disliking "the US"? While there's always the possibility of sabotage from any number of groups local or international, it seems more likely that it was just a technical failure. From what I heard, the investigation ruled out sabotage, citing an electrical flaw that triggered one of the solid boosters. There were also prior reports that the Brazilian space program had poor safety records and inadequate training of personnel. Also, it was a "launch pad", not a "landing pad", and 21 fatalities is only a small portion of the crew, not "all the engineers that they had". Most countries with space programs had many of their early missions result in failure, and even with what they've learned, they still have disasters to this day. By the way, for anyone interested, here are some before and after satellite photos of the launch site.

Speeder said:
Then BUSH came here, this caused a stupid "incident"

Students, started to flood the streets in protest against BUSH, and our police like a good police, attacked the students (without a clear reason, since most of them was unarmed)

Result: first, we got rock threw at the cops, and some fireworks shot at them... The cops then shoot back with rubber guns, and someone fired a real firearm...

After the firearm, the cops drawed firearms, the students now REALLY upset drawed molotovs, and in the middle of the fight, a BAZOOKA rocket flyed... fortunally the shooter of the rocket missed (or it was intentional?) and hit nothing important...
So, these supposed "student protesters" were lighting fires in the street and throwing rocks and fireworks at the police, expecting them to just to stand there and do nothing about it? I suppose it was also America's fault that the "student protestors" were looting stores and burning down a bank, which you conveniently failed to mention? The riot was over relatively quickly, and when all was done, nearly 70 people were arrested, and no one was killed. To me, it sounds as though the police did a fairly good job containing the riot before it was able to spiral further out of control.

It also sounds as though you've been taking too much political propaganda at face value. It's a lot easier for people to pass the blame onto some third party than to acknowledge their own faults as the primary cause. It's better to acknowledge all sides of an argument rather than blindly following one side or another.
written by Colonel_kournne on Dec 10, 2006 09:25
As a side note: I wonder, if America was only after Iraq's oil, then why did prices go so far up almost immediately after the invasion, and then stay up for so long? The prices in my area are just barely coming back down to 'reasonable' level.
reading this thread
no members are reading this thread
. /../America is not a free.../ 12
46983, 14 queries, 0.121 s.this frame is part of the AnyNowhere network