. /../Technologically Inept/ 1234567
there's science to be done!
written by Yash on Jun 23, 2007 15:41
Innovation is the wrong word to use. Mount and Blade just happens to be good at what it does. That alone does not make it innovative.
written by Xenomorph on Jun 23, 2007 15:46
The term "innovative" is, in modern terms, just a marketing buzzword meaning "We want your money."
lieutenant busybody
written by Fth on Jun 23, 2007 16:20
Your logic is flawed, since there are innovative freeware games.
written by Bellum on Jun 23, 2007 18:17
Yash said:
Innovation is the wrong word to use. Mount and Blade just happens to be good at what it does. That alone does not make it innovative.
I think innovation is the perfect word to use. It makes use of these mechanics in a way that other games have not.
hello! :) felysian
written by Hello! :) on Jun 23, 2007 19:40
Yash said:
That alone counts for innovation, though? It's not really new, since we've had horseback fighting before. M&B just happened to do it extremely well.
Yash said:
Innovation is the wrong word to use. Mount and Blade just happens to be good at what it does. That alone does not make it innovative.
I belive:
Http://www.answers.com/innovative?nafid=3 said:
  1. Not the same as what was previously known or done: different, fresh, inventive, new, newfangled, novel, original, unfamiliar, unprecedented. See new/old.
Disagrees with what you are saying.

So anyway, I guess by the above definition you now can consider "innovative" just another marketing ploy, wether for money or not.
krush kill 'n destroy
written by Geekofdeath on Jun 23, 2007 20:42
Xenomorph said:
The term "innovative" is, in modern terms, just a marketing buzzword meaning "We want your money."
Well said.

Although that's not what it really means, the word "Innovative" is really getting on my nerves.

"WE'RE MAKING GOOD, INNOVATIVE to a point RTS/RPG GAMES!!! WE'RE ADDING ORIGINAL compared to other games of this genre FEATURES SUCH AS LEVELING UP stolen from RPGs, FIRST PERSON COMBAT (FIGHT WITH YOUR TROOP!!!) stolen from FPSs AND half-FULL 3D isometric GRAPHICS WITH IMPLEMENTED and primitive PHYSICS ENGINES!!! BECAUSE WITH [Insert Company Here], YOU'RE WINNER!!!"

I'm exaggerating a bit here, however.
hello! :) felysian
written by Hello! :) on Jun 23, 2007 22:10
Geekofdeath said:
"WE'RE MAKING GOOD, INNOVATIVE to a point RTS/RPG GAMES!!! WE'RE ADDING ORIGINAL compared to other games of this genre FEATURES SUCH AS LEVELING UP stolen from RPGs, FIRST PERSON COMBAT (FIGHT WITH YOUR TROOP!!!) stolen from FPSs AND half-FULL 3D isometric GRAPHICS WITH IMPLEMENTED and primitive PHYSICS ENGINES!!! BECAUSE WITH [Insert Company Here], YOU'RE WINNER!!!"
You know what, that game, by definition, would be innovative. Taking existing elements and putting them together in a new way is innovation.
there's science to be done!
written by Yash on Jun 23, 2007 23:10
No no no, I still argue that you can't call it innovative. Different, as you singled out, is the only word you can use to describe Mount and Blade's horseback combat. I'm sure it's been done in other games, so it isn't inventive, new, newfangled, novel, original, unfamiliar OR unprecedented.
If taking things from other games and putting them together is innovative, then every single game ever is innovative.
krush kill 'n destroy
written by Geekofdeath on Jun 24, 2007 01:32
Hello! said:
You know what, that game, by definition, would be innovative. Taking existing elements and putting them together in a new way is innovation.
It still gets boring with the same darn game mechanics just being switched genres. Nearly every single major RTS has references to MMORPGs these days.
written by Bellum on Jun 24, 2007 02:55
Yash said:
No no no, I still argue that you can't call it innovative. Different, as you singled out, is the only word you can use to describe Mount and Blade's horseback combat. I'm sure it's been done in other games, so it isn't inventive, new, newfangled, novel, original, unfamiliar OR unprecedented.
If taking things from other games and putting them together is innovative, then every single game ever is innovative.
It is novel and unfamiliar, which is not the same thing as unprecedented....

Though I don't know where these fight-on horseback action games that your talking about come from.
there's science to be done!
written by Yash on Jun 24, 2007 03:00
Off the top of my head.. I suppose I could mention Zelda OOT or Daggerfall, but I've played neither so I don't know. I am certain more games exist.
written by Bellum on Jun 24, 2007 03:29
Well I suppose you should fire arrows on your horse, but there really wasn't much horse fighting. There isn't even a slight resemblance.

As far as Daggerfall, I don't know. I imagine you probably can't fight on a horse, but I don't know. I never got past one dungeon before I said forget it an moved on to something else.
whatever.
written by Bgreman on Jun 24, 2007 20:26
I would argue that M&B, while a great game, isn't really innovative because you'd EXPECT an action game about Medieval combat to include mounted combat.

They got it right, very right, but it wasn't exactly rocket science to say, "You know what this game needs and everyone will think is awesome? MOUNTED COMBAT!" The game would have felt awkward WITHOUT it.

I mostly consider innovation to coincide with new and interesting ways to interact with the game itself. I'd call M&B's control scheme innovative, if a similar one hadn't been used by Rune or Severance a few years earlier.

Alternately, consider a new gameplay mechanic shoehorned into an old genre. The Final Fantasy games, say what you will about them, always tend to include some new method of producing/using magic in the game (FF7: Materia, FF8: Junction, etc). These systems are innovative, even if the games themselves are not.
krush kill 'n destroy
written by Geekofdeath on Jun 24, 2007 20:47
I found a very nice article about the lack of creativeness of the game industry (how much it is lacking is up to debate):

http://videolamer.com/index.php/1456

Last new genre was the rhythm game from 1996, according to the article.
i haz title: speed-g-dof
written by Speeder on Jun 24, 2007 23:14
First, There are nothing new in World of Warcraft (as someone commented) since everythign that they claim to be new, was from Ultima Online (the first, and best MMO, that it was the only one not focused in kill, smash, steal, kill, smash, steal)

oh yeah, this does not include the expansions (EA did to Ultima Online the same thign that they did to The-Sims, they stuffed the game with new items and larger map, and resold the entire game to get some more money from people that already bought it).

Now the lack of creativity in new games, is plainly because companies does not want to risk their neck on a market where creating a "AAA" game costs more than 2 million dollars, and with the final product price being 20 dollars, needing 100000 sales (sales, not copies ) to pay the cost.

We was not talking about technologically inepts?

I saw someone that was LISP user, since it opened () three times in a row, and closed only two, like old LISP programs (I mean, this was on this topic)
reading this thread
no members are reading this thread
. /../Technologically Inept/ 1234567
41852, 10 queries, 0.105 s.this frame is part of the AnyNowhere network