. /../The definitive oil thread./ 1234
the bestest ever
written by Medeivalstargazer on May 13, 2008 03:47
Ok, so, before we even start: Please keep politics to a bare minimum. Although this may seem like a political issue at first glance, it really isn't. It's more of a geological and social issue. Our entire civilization now runs on oil. Trucks, trains, planes, and all other vehicles run on some form of refined oil. All food, coal, OIL, raw materials, and everything else is shipped by one of these methods. With regular unleaded now at $3.83 (Appr. 2.47 Euros) per gallon (locally, and I am in a relatively small town. Midwest, pop. ~45000), the situation is growing a tad frightening. I personally don't drive yet, but that's just the thing; since everything relies on oil, the price of EVERYTHING is going up. If I recall correctly, the Russian AND French revolutions were sparked by the high price of bread.

As soon as the companies can no longer earn more off of the oil then it costs to actually ship and market it, then they are going to... well... retire, I suppose? What else would any good capitalist do? I realize the situation isn't the same everywhere; I AM in America, after all. Prices are probably much worse in Europe. But the thing with America is; we're spoiled. We're used to our cheap oil, and we aren't taking kindly to the higher prices. With such a big landmass, we can't operate without it. Or at least, not with a population of 300million. People in bigger cities won't be able to get food when the oil 'dries up' (even though there will still be oil, it will just be inaccessable). Smaller cities will be able to rely on older forms of transport, such as animals and buggies, to transport food to the cities. But areas such as New York, with 6 million in one city, are going to have a much harder time. Especially when winter comes.

We'd have power for a short period of time, but eventually the lights would go out in areas run on coal plants. No oil, then no coal can be shipped. Hospitals would suffer massive crowding and suffering, especially when the generators die. The only areas that would be safe are areas with windmills and solar energy. (Side note: My area just so happens to be run on mostly wind. We just built three new wind farms =] ).

Seems our civilization would have had better luck had we never found oil, really... We've become totally dependent.

Any input? I'd like to find out just how much it does cost to drill, ship, and market oil here; per barrel. See how much of a profit they are turning, and how long we may have. What happens when this inevitably happens? (And don't lie to yourself; it will happen.) I suspect government rationing to be the first sign...
rawr
written by Raptorjedi on May 13, 2008 04:26
If we are smart enough (which I think we are, we're just a bit stubborn too), we will have a new supply of power for our vehicles well before this becomes an issue. As for trains, not sure about how the US will cope, but Europe is mostly electric trains rather than diesel trains. I honestly don't see this being a problem.

You are also forgetting about nuclear power, which doesn't use any fossil fuels to give us power. Also, you run on mostly wind, but likely your base power supply comes from either coal or nuclear power plants. Wind power (at the moment) simply doesn't meet the needs to power large areas, same with hydro (which you also forgot). Though the Hoover Dam does provide power as far as Los Angeles.


I still think we could compensate for the eventual loss, and we will likely do so before the fossil fuels run out in the first place.
faces or a vase?
written by Tom on May 13, 2008 04:47
I think we have enough oil for a couple centuries at the current rate of consumption (although this is increasing), the reason oil prices are so high is political.

Of course, coal is cheap and we have several centuries' worth right here in the US, but it's dangerous to extract and very dirty. More than half of the power generated in the US comes from coal, last I checked.

Anyway, when it gets to the point where transportation becomes prohibitively expensive, that's when the serious research into alternative power sources will start. Right now it's in the interests of those who have power (whether political or economic) to burn oil for transportation and coal for power (in most places), but that will change as soon as an economic incentive exists.

Remember, everything runs on money in America - whatever is cheapest is what will be done. The biggest problem is in the environmental impact.

(Of course, I shell out $40 or so every couple weeks, because my Buick guzzles gas. I have nowhere near the money for a more efficient car.)
rawr
written by Raptorjedi on May 13, 2008 05:04
The environment also has an impact on oil. Alaska is full of it, but because of the fact it's also sitting in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is the only thing preventing it from being pumped out. Thankfully that was there first. I'll admit things are going bad when someone actually manages to get congress to let them drill there.
krush kill 'n destroy
written by Geekofdeath on May 13, 2008 19:50
Hopefully we get some nuclear going on. I say that its worth the risk; the U.S. has only had one major failure. Some types of renewable energy are nice (dams), but although they will last, they do not produce nearly enough power needed.

I'm just waiting for fusion.
the bestest ever
written by Medeivalstargazer on May 13, 2008 21:55
Yes, nuclear does require the burning of oil. How do you think they get the pellets from point A to point B? Same goes for coal; we burn oil to get it from one place to the next. 'Here inside the US' sounds nice, until you realize you still have to ship it a few hundred miles over land, via oil burning vehicles. America is a big place.

Oh, and I tried to make clear: I'm not worried about the oil running out; I'm worried about it becoming economically ineffective to ship to America and sell. Once they start losing money on it, they aren't going to continue trying to sell it.
written by Bensel on May 13, 2008 22:37
Medeivalstargazer said:
Yes, nuclear does require the burning of oil. How do you think they get the pellets from point A to point B?
That's why you make electric vehicles that use the power made by the nuclear plants.
faces or a vase?
written by Tom on May 13, 2008 22:39
They (whoever "they" are) won't stop trying to sell it, (whatever "it" is) because it represents a huge amount of revenue for them...if oil stops being cost-effective something else will be found. All the world's major economies depend on each other, so if the American market disappears it will hurt everyone else (probably more than it would hurt us if they disappeared, given America's huge variety of exports.)
krush kill 'n destroy
written by Geekofdeath on May 14, 2008 01:05
Of course, nobody actually in America notices said exports because everything America is apparently Made in China.

Except fortune cookies, which are apparently made in New York.
rose pony is best pony
written by Starchaser on May 14, 2008 07:40
Geekofdeath said:
Except fortune cookies, which are apparently made in New York.
BAHAHAHA thats classic..
written by Deanfrz on May 16, 2008 01:05
It'll either be singular cities in the wilderness powered by pure nanotech, or Mad Max and the Thunder Dome.
written by Ouch on May 28, 2008 20:35
I personly think electric vehicles is just around the corner. battery efficiancy has sky rocketed in the last few years alone. and pure electric cars have already been mass produced by a couple vehicle manufaturers like GM in the past.

another thing to keep in mind is with all the clean energy crap you keep hearing about is almost always turning something into electricity. be it a solar panel, wind farm, or hydro plant.

Hydrogen is not the fuel of the future. Don't believe the hype surrounding it. It simply wastes too much power/resources produceing it that could otherwise be used to charge a battery on thousands of vehicles.

however I do see hydrogen being short-term usefull in the form of an additive for our current gas. you can now buy kits both in perfance/raceing stores and ebay that will inject hydrogen into your fuel line cutting fuel usage by 40%-50%. all you need to add is water, and power from your battery/alternator for this. There also cheap to build $50-$70 for a home made jobbie or $100-$125 for a profesional, mass manufactured one. you can do this with any gasoline engine.
whoosh
written by Buuks on May 28, 2008 20:48
Medeivalstargazer said:
With regular unleaded now at $3.83 (Appr. 2.47 Euros) per gallon
That is cheap.

I have to pay 1,52 for a liter of unleaded. Which is about 5,75 for a gallon.
Luckily my boss pays me for my travelling costs every working day.
the bestest ever
written by Medeivalstargazer on May 29, 2008 00:19
Where do you live? And, by the way, regular is like $3.96 or so now. Will probably hit $4.00 by the end of the week.

I'm assuming by your use of commas in place of decimals, that you live in (or near) Germany?
faces or a vase?
written by Tom on May 29, 2008 01:29
Medeivalstargazer said:
Where do you live? And, by the way, regular is like $3.96 or so now. Will probably hit $4.00 by the end of the week.

I'm assuming by your use of commas in place of decimals, that you live in (or near) Germany?
He lives in the Netherlands, assuming his profile is correct.

But the Netherlands, as just about everywhere else in Europe, are small and have good public transportation. In America, your only options are walking, driving, or taking a bus, and for most people walking is not feasible due to distance, and buses are inconvenient and expensive (although I can ride for free with my university ID. )
reading this thread
no members are reading this thread
. /../The definitive oil thread./ 1234
42761, 10 queries, 0.095 s.this frame is part of the AnyNowhere network