. /../Noctis IV inbox! Now!/ 1234
night fth
written by Ferinex on Dec 15, 2008 00:13
No, the 'you' was ambiguous. I was referring to the entities who have been making the changes to the algorithm :] Although it's still useless, because from what I understand, they have abandoned NICE, as well. I am currently reading through the comments/source in SyncSm.cpp.

EDIT:

Looking through this code, it would be a fairly simple process to change the URLs to something else, and maintain the inboxes for SM3, if mega(?) isn't willing to do it anymore. I'd do it, but I don't have a server available to me. Just my google pages, and I'm not so sure that would be reliable enough .
"gheeh!" (c)h.azuma
written by Yayo on Dec 15, 2008 00:57
woah! umbelievable!
so the outbox I sent to alex like 3 years ago is probably available now. meh, better late than never, I guess.. : P
It's ages I stopped playing NIV, I dont' even remember the planets I named.. I wonder if there's something in my discoveries which worth a travel.. I'll check my old "yayo's discoveries thread". : P
in the meanwhile congrats for the good work.

y.
written by Jaxe'd on Dec 15, 2008 01:01
Yayo said:
...in the meanwhile congrats for the good work...
I second that!! Awesome work, Neuzd!
rose pony is best pony
written by Starchaser on Dec 15, 2008 02:08
Yayo said:
woah! umbelievable!
so the outbox I sent to alex like 3 years ago is probably available now. meh, better late than never, I guess.. : P
It's ages I stopped playing NIV, I dont' even remember the planets I named.. I wonder if there's something in my discoveries which worth a travel.. I'll check my old "yayo's discoveries thread". : P
in the meanwhile congrats for the good work.

y.
I don't think so. If you sent it though the feedback form 3 years ago it probably wouldn't. To save space it cleans house every now and then. So unless I'm wrong (Please correct me if I am) It would be lost.

EDIT: Oh and congratulation Neuzd.
I take my hat off to you sir.
absent more than alex
written by Shadowlord on Dec 15, 2008 02:56
Hi folks. (Yay for the forum star bug being fixed!)

Serpens said:
First, it is true that NICE has very different terrain than Noctis IV. And actually, many NICE versions differ from themselves in this aspect. For example, NICE 7a and Noctis completely do not match. NICE 8.5 (or 8) and 7a also do not match, because there was a big change in the former version (which added depth to the game, by the way). And all those versions use the old Starmap. This causes a big problem for notes, yes, and it's difficult to come with a solution unless....
About that:

The rationale was:
1. Major terrain generation bugs were found and fixed in R7-R9.
2. We figured that since this already made guide notes unreliable, this would be the best time to also make other changes that would also have broken compatibility.

R7 fixed: planets having identical surfaces.
R7a fixed: night-time and cloud color affected ground terrain
R8 fixed: "The terrain distribution was decidedly non-random, due to the random algorithm" - Solved by making the local seeds have more variation.
and added forests and shrublands, and cacti to deserts, and trees to some icy/snowy regions (depending on conditions in the area).
R9 fixed: "The terrain (visible from space) of different planets was often similar, due to the planet seed having only a tiny effect on the terrain. I gave the seed a greater effect (it affects every tile now), and added another thing to make them differ more (but not much more)."
I also found and fixed a bunch of buffer overflows for R9.

R9 is also when starmap3 arrived.

On the subject of combining NIV and NICE somehow, or improving NICE further, I'd suggest considering starting from the most recent NICE source code. Here's why:
1. All the crash bugs, buffer overflows, terrain generation problems (identical planets, identical sectors, so on), from Noctis IV and from older NICE versions are fixed
2. All the other bugs from both that are also fixed
3. The windows port works fairly well in its current state, if I remember right. Any further changes could be made to that, so there would be no conventional memory ceiling to deal with.

The latest source is at http://mooses.nl/nice/sources/nice_megagun_30aug2008.7z

To compile the windows version, or SyncStarmap and CreateInbox3, Triceratops (turns starmap1 into starmap2), Triceratops23 (turns starmap2 into starmap3, but creates an empty guide notes file), etc, you need Digital Mars' c++ compiler (installed in c:\dm).

Look at the compile-*.bat files if you want to compile something, there's one there for anything you want to compile (or ask which one you need).
Here are some:
compile-dxnice-win.bat <-- compiles the windows build with DX/DirectDraw enabled (for the --fullscreen command-line option).
compile-modules.bat <-- compiles DOS modules.
compile-wmodules.bat <-- compiles windows modules. Not all modules were fully ported, I think.
compile.bat <-- compiles the DOS version

P.S. If you use triceratops and triceratops23 to import starmap1 to starmap3, you will get an empty SM3 guide file - it doesn't convert that, it only does the starmap.
lost, not forgotten
written by Alex on Dec 15, 2008 03:23
Serpens said:
I'm sorry if you felt so.
Oh never mind that, I often tend to feel so... it's part of my troubles. I'm always scared of disappointing someone, and end up perhaps disappointing everyone.

Starchaser said:
I don't think so. If you sent it though the feedback form 3 years ago it probably wouldn't. To save space it cleans house every now and then. So unless I'm wrong (Please correct me if I am) It would be lost.
You are. It isn't the system that cleans it up automatically, it's me deleting files from there. Before deleting I obviously download them. But through years I switched hard drives and folders, and although I presume I kept most of the outboxes, I can't be sure if some remained in some temporary location from where I then forgot to copy them to a definitive place. I'd say the great part of them might be there, but the percentage of missing ones could still vary between 0 and ... perhaps 30 percent.

@ Shadowlord:

thank you very much for clarifying. Basing on all the improvements you've been obtaining, I again wonder if it shouldn't be the case to use the latest NICE to simply replace NIV, leaving the original NIV and its data set for those who may still wanted to find that exact universe unaltered. Thus simplified, the problem could reduce to distinguishing outboxes between the two versions and seeing if Neuzd could accept and dispatch both formats.
doing pushups
written by Megagun on Dec 15, 2008 08:55
Shadowlord said:
On the subject of combining NIV and NICE somehow, or improving NICE further, I'd suggest considering starting from the most recent NICE source code. Here's why:
1. All the crash bugs, buffer overflows, terrain generation problems (identical planets, identical sectors, so on), from Noctis IV and from older NICE versions are fixed
2. All the other bugs from both that are also fixed
3. The windows port works fairly well in its current state, if I remember right. Any further changes could be made to that, so there would be no conventional memory ceiling to deal with.
There are actually still quite a few bugs and quirks in that one, though..

*Skies of felysian and unstable (volcanic) worlds are bugged
*Volcanic worlds look wrong when viewed from space (this might also be the case for other planet types)
*Planet surfaces randomly change (volcanic worlds do that, and perhaps some others too)
*Random crashes happen, some without known causes, some with known causes (unstable planet + transparant surface = crash upon landing, for example)

However, the worst thing in NICE is currently that neither the Windows nor the DOS version is really 'complete'. The Windows version is missing proper moviemaking (and perhaps also proper PortableGOES functionality), and the DOS version misses a lot of things recently added to the Windows version.

Regarding the NIV GOES comments: I doubt that anyone ever submitted any substantial amount of GOES comments during the timeperiod when NICE had different surfaces yet still employed the old NIV-style GUIDE. Even today, it seems that there are only very few outboxes being delivered. Unless there are a lot of people running R7-R8.5, most of those should be either NICE Starmap3 files (clearly noticeable if you use a hexeditor), or vanilla NIV outboxes.


EDIT: the problems with syncstarmap that I found:
*GUIDE entries aren't updated?
*There's at least one 'corrupted' starmap that is screwing around with things, causing me to not be able to update the starmap again. Basically, I can't update the thing reliably anymore and it keeps bugging out.
└> last changed by Megagun on December 15, 2008 at 09:22
i do my own stun-- avatars
written by Albeyamakiir on Dec 15, 2008 09:21
Awesome work Neuzd.
absent more than alex
written by Shadowlord on Dec 15, 2008 17:04
Megagun said:
*Skies of felysian and unstable (volcanic) worlds are bugged
*Volcanic worlds look wrong when viewed from space (this might also be the case for other planet types)
*Planet surfaces randomly change (volcanic worlds do that, and perhaps some others too)
*Random crashes happen, some without known causes, some with known causes (unstable planet + transparant surface = crash upon landing, for example)
When did those start happening?
doing pushups
written by Megagun on Dec 15, 2008 17:31
R11, I believe..
r'lyeh sweet r'lyeh
written by Neuzd on Dec 15, 2008 19:05
First of all, thanks to all of you, I'm feeling on top of Felysia and I'm proud to have made all of you happy about the inbox retun!

Of course I'm really grateful to Alex for giving me this opportunity.
I really find Noctis a "tool for the mind and dreams" and I'm happy I'm an active part of it.

/me bows once again in every direction possible.

Alex said:
Starchaser said:
I don't think so. If you sent it though the feedback form 3 years ago it probably wouldn't. To save space it cleans house every now and then. So unless I'm wrong (Please correct me if I am) It would be lost.
You are. It isn't the system that cleans it up automatically, it's me deleting files from there. Before deleting I obviously download them. But through years I switched hard drives and folders, and although I presume I kept most of the outboxes, I can't be sure if some remained in some temporary location from where I then forgot to copy them to a definitive place. I'd say the great part of them might be there, but the percentage of missing ones could still vary between 0 and ... perhaps 30 percent.
I'll write a better report on the official Noctis Thread about the outboxes I imported.
Just a quick recap:
Alex sent me 270 outboxes from 2003 to 2008.
The great majority had like 99% of the entries already imported.
They were most likely updated outboxes that some explorer sent in without first updating their StarMap.

To avoid having just one new name and thousands of duplicate guide notes, I preferred to eliminate them from the list.

In the end I had 68 (plus one mine) outboxes from 2005 to 2008.

For Yayo's entries...I dpn't know, I can search for Yayo, if that's how you sign yourself in the notes.
"gheeh!" (c)h.azuma
written by Yayo on Dec 15, 2008 23:56
err.. to be honest I really don't remember. : P
but if it's not "yayo" it's probably "y."

anyway I still have on the desk here a small piece of paper with the list of all the planet I named in that session. (duh. It's 3 years it's here around! ^^; )

these are my discoveries: bluemug, promat, pign, bulbi, aex, lostnfound, lagrand, ratu, ture, lane, digend, dyaking, farma, awet, and lagig.

if you find one of these planets in the list, then there's also my stuff. : )
(anyway, it's not all that important.. ; P)

y.
r'lyeh sweet r'lyeh
written by Neuzd on Dec 16, 2008 02:30
Yayo said:
(anyway, it's not all that important.. ; P)

y.
Not anymore, since they're of public domain now.
: )
Your inbox was among those I imported.
rose pony is best pony
written by Starchaser on Dec 16, 2008 05:35
Alex said:
Starchaser said:
I don't think so. If you sent it though the feedback form 3 years ago it probably wouldn't. To save space it cleans house every now and then. So unless I'm wrong (Please correct me if I am) It would be lost.
You are. It isn't the system that cleans it up automatically, it's me deleting files from there. Before deleting I obviously download them. But through years I switched hard drives and folders, and although I presume I kept most of the outboxes, I can't be sure if some remained in some temporary location from where I then forgot to copy them to a definitive place. I'd say the great part of them might be there, but the percentage of missing ones could still vary between 0 and ... perhaps 30 percent.
Ahh yes I wasn't sure. I just remembered reading somewhere about the feedback folder being emptied to save space. Must have gotten mixed up with some other feature about something else (with either post line or another program) I read so many documents yesterday I can barely remember which goes with what. (C#, Post Line, Lino, Hactar ect. way to many dev notes to keep track of )

Apologies for my mistake.

And in that case you may have my one I sent as well.

On that note. I may start playing Noctis again.



Once again congratulations Neuzd.
i do my own stun-- avatars
written by Albeyamakiir on Dec 16, 2008 09:46
Is is supposed to be taking so long to update? It's at a few minutes now. Also, was alt-tabbing bad?
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