. /../Feltyrion oddities...?/ 123
written by 4616599 on Feb 23, 2010 11:19
Walreis said:
I'm using NIV+.
And earlier, 4616599 (okay, I concede, it was in tiny text) said:
*note that with Noctis IV+, you cannot enter the outer rim. You may find yourself having to switch back to IV; well, every version has its advantages.
I believe the borders shown in NM are rather inaccurate...you may have to switch back to IV standard. I wouldn't really worry too much about your existing IV+ work; just create a separate outbox for your IV+ stuff to send to neuzd, and copy your IV+ CURRENT.bin to IV.

About DL not working, well, it's an oddity. The same thing seems to happen to neuzd's CATSYS module. Can't help there...
r'lyeh sweet r'lyeh
written by Neuzd on Feb 23, 2010 13:22
@Walreis
I'm finding myself in the same situation after reading every one of your messages. Which is that I'd like to yell at you, but obviously that won't be useful nor wise.

The fact is that you are trying to do things that are far beyond your knowledge. You should dedicate some months to Noctis to understand what's going on out there, and also what's going on in the sardrifters community.
For instance, your outboxes tell me you didn't read the guide. It's not that it's mandatory to do certain things, but well, if you play Noctis with the intention of participating in the Stardrifters community, you should at least learn proper terms and be aware of those things consolidated years ago.

In short, you should dedicate some time to try to become a stardrifter, before thinking of becoming a particularly good stardrifter.
If you hit the border without knowing what you're doing for instance, not only your destination will become your tomb, but you won't bring useful informations to the community.

Please, when you're in doubt ask some questions, do not pretend to know how things are going: if the ST module tells you one target is out of range, it is out of range.
What were you expecting the DL module to do? Because I don't understand your sentence.

I've got also a more precise answer to the previous post of yours when you asked all those questions about the galaxy: Noctis is based on an alternative physics model. No real-world experience can help you here.

4616599 said:
About DL not working, well, it's an oddity. The same thing seems to happen to neuzd's CATSYS module.
Woooo, really? I can't have DL to work on VNoctis+, but I thought it was just a problem with the virtualization. Although all other starmap based modules work fine....
Anyway, all custom modules worked when I wrote them. Is there some further details about the "wrong" behaviour? For instance my non-working vnoctis DL freezes at "organizing tree" (I left it there for entire minutes...).
written by Walreis on Feb 24, 2010 04:47
(Before seeing this third page of the thread I edited a previous post that deserves - I guess - a glance.)

Neuzd,

It's ok that which you say about bringing useful information to the community. Nothing to take from and nothing to add to it. Notwithstanding, fisrt of all, here I'm a gamer, say, I play Noctis for fun - for curiosity, which means, to me, the same. Yes, I didn't read entirely the GUIDE, but if the game works fine with trial and error approach (you taught me this once, I remember), why would I have to be acquainted with a whole long history prior to try to write my own one in this chimeric universe? I took from it what I thought to be necessary to start exploring, the remaining information coming during the way. (I already said I played it, years ago, solely, and made a good progress, although some calculi never matched 'cause I were using a tricked measure, the square root of 5/10K parsis to deal with fuel - my own fault or, I must say, stupidity.)

So, my guide is my curiosity: if someone says there's a felisian orbiting a star where felisians are not expected, this turns my 'nosiness' on and I'm able to give my kingdom to witness this; if it is said galaxy boundaries have oddities, I have to see it.

That's all I'm trying to do with Noctis, and I'm here to get some help, naturally. Then, how could I be feigning to know what I ignore? Else, how can I know about something whose questions I make about are the exact proof of my ignorance in this subject? Please, Sir, try a better psychology or human logic manual.

Concerning the unreachable stars, they are de facto unattainable, and I fancied a while ago if it's possible to label them in spite of this limitation. (I'll try the 'wile' and report later.) When I posted about it, I was just reporting the occurrence, not complaining.

DL command, I insist, is nonfunctional with labels of stars located beyond 1,5 billion parsis more or less. And this is just another feedback.

Finally, this post isn't also a long complain - at all. If a label must be applied to it, I'm sure that the one of 'acquaintance for further friendship improvement' would fit well.

P.S.: Focusing a little more your last paragraph, I recall that DL says "organizing tree", then outputting a black screen. Would it be a freezing? How long one has to wait for the output?
└> last changed by Walreis on February 24, 2010 at 06:35
r'lyeh sweet r'lyeh
written by Neuzd on Feb 24, 2010 12:09
I'm thinking I probably had the wrong approach with you.

It's starting to make sense to me that you most likely haven't realized the real scope of Noctis and so you can't really understand the points that I'm trying to make.

The "unexpected" behaviors of Noctis aren't just a little thing like "oh there's a star there which is different from all the others".
Every single aspect of Noctis is generated on-the-fly, even textures are procedurally generated!

This gives the program a depth which you really can't hope to grasp with few days of playing.
Someone here like me are calling themselves "scientists" and it's not a game! It's how I really approach Noctis, I studied the code, the starmap and guide and collected experience from the stardrifters.

If Noctis was Maths, it's like you heard of imaginary numbers and started getting interested on the topic, but I knew that you never studied powers and know just natural numbers to begin with.

Please, at least read more of the guide...CAT FELYSIA should open your eyes.
written by Walreis on Feb 24, 2010 14:28
Sir,

On the contrary of what you're supposing, I caught precisely the point you try to make of Noctis' explorations, at least as much as one who is almost absolutely unaware of the program's code. From my point of view, for instance, it could be extremely interesting, besides the oddities of this universe, to perceive how simple patterns, like the one of the gnosis' heavens, replicate inside the structure of this very community, where a supreme god (actually retired or in vacations - Mircea Eliade has a label for the situation, 'Deus absconditus') entrusts some high entities picked from his cohorts of archangels with the task of keeping his work after creation. This could be a fair proof, from the side of my interests, of how powerful these patterns are in the building of social relationships. I believe you're not interested in theorizing this subject; you prefer keep living the way described in it, inside this structure, although you can even admit you perceive its outline around each move in the group. The converse of this situation is true if in the place of this theory you put the code of Noctis. It envelops me when I'm drifting, but I can't sense it yet in the way you do.

Besides, not just the galaxy and its details are produced on-the-fly and by procedural programming arguments: their exploration too. Truthfully, this technique isn't but another shadow we humans conceived to imitate real world. So you should give us time out of just sit behind a desk and, under your precious, preceptorial orientation, study the felisian annals, and allow us to get acquainted with Noctis' subtleties by ourselves too (on-the-fly, procedurally). The guide is being studied, but it doesn't say much yet in my present-day knowledge of Noctis - in time this will change, I'm sure. And what's your reward? No, it isn't none. It's our precarious reports, brute crystals that in your hands will become jewels. In short, be patient, my friend.
r'lyeh sweet r'lyeh
written by Neuzd on Feb 24, 2010 14:54
Watch your irony and check your PM inbox.
written by Ixsetf on Feb 24, 2010 20:58
Im kinda leaning towards Nezud for this one.
absent more than alex
written by Shadowlord on Feb 24, 2010 22:57
4616599 said:
^Wrong. =P

For IV standard (at least its current downloadable version) it is fully possible to target outer rim stars from the galaxy borders.
Then Alex changed this. At the time that NICE was started based on NIV, it was impossible to target and travel to stars beyond a certain distance from the galactic center. There was the bug in which you could target by parsis in standard NIV at the time as well. The feature was retained in NICE, and the bug was corrected. I presumed that the feature was also retained in NIV+ and the bugfix ported into it as well. (And I consider 'IV standard' to be out of date. NIV+ is the standard now, methinks, unless you can't run it due to having no DOS capability.)
r'lyeh sweet r'lyeh
written by Neuzd on Feb 24, 2010 23:11
Despite what may seem logical, the released source of NIV is not the code the vanilla NIV build is based on.

This is the only real difference I found, but 4.6M is right. We both use to change from NIV+ to NIV when a trip over the rim borders is in sight.

For the bug you talk about, I'm not sure I got what you mean, I assume it is possible to input numbers too big, and if it isn't something Megagun resolved, I'm afraid it's still there in NIV+....and in the custom PST module.
absent more than alex
written by Shadowlord on Feb 25, 2010 00:57
You came here after he released the source, yes? He changed at least one other thing in NIV a while after releasing the source - He tweaked the automatic framerate limit built into the game. I don't think he updated the source when he did it, but it was a change that was easily reproduced (And NICE was the only modified NIV version at the time).

(We added in-game options to the stardrifter's menu in NICE to configure it)

Basically: If you set target by parsis you could target coordinates that should have reported 'out of range' (there is a range test which was performed when targetting stars, which wasn't performed for target by parsis, IIRC).

It's the third bug I fixed in NIV, was included in the first released version of NICE (which wasn't called NICE then), and listed in the first post in http://anynowhere.com/bb/posts.php?t=1943.

So if NIV+ was based on *any* released version of NICE, you had it fixed already.

(Assuming you don't consider it a bug that it doesn't allow you to target stars or anything over the rim)
r'lyeh sweet r'lyeh
written by Neuzd on Feb 25, 2010 01:33
Ok, I'm an idiot because it's the same portion of code, I just didn't get exactly what you meant, the first time : P

Anyway, I tried asking Alex about this difference with the source, but he wasn't really sure of what happened, he even suggested that it could have gone the other way around (he removed the limit), but I find it very strange.
My theory is that at some point, he forgot there were modifications and published an archive with an outdated version of the exe. And it is still that way.

The modifications for NIV+ were based from the source Megagun used, but I can assure you it was the same published in the Noctis source link (apart the few mods Megagun already added).

Other NICE features I've included have been ported with file comparison software, and a large dose of attention and patience. So I ported ONLY the code that was useful for the feature I was implementing.

[EDIT PS]
I started working on NIV+ very recently. No more than one year ago. I'm positive the source didn't change during this time, and by the way, I found myself downloading the source package several times at different moments, because of other machines I was working on.
absent more than alex
written by Shadowlord on Feb 25, 2010 01:45
Ah. Well, in any case, the first several released versions of NICE, or Fixactis (as it was initially called until the name poll finished), were half fixes by me and a couple changes that I made, and half changes/hacks by Megagun.

It wasn't until several versions later that I started making larger changes (like the moving-between-sector stuff, and the flying landing pod). The changelogs are all buried in that thread that I linked to, actually.
r'lyeh sweet r'lyeh
written by Neuzd on Mar 22, 2010 13:14
I need to address another thing for sake of completeness.

I should blame myself for not having done this (very small and simple) research earlier.
...and it's not that the info provided came from what you can call an unreliable or unexperienced source : P

Skinnymon said:
So what should I do with thIS? [J/K neuzd!]
.
.

So, yes, if you travel to that location you will find a planetless S00 labeled Westos, which upon arrival doesn't seem to generate anomalies in the game.


(a photo of our subject to show how things in fact appear normal)

I have the feeling that the label Westos may appear also in other places, apart from the strange occurences discussed earlier in this thread.
ShadowLord may have some precious hints in my opinion, because Triceratops is programmed to avoid stars with one (or more) coordinate set to 0, and despite making sense in all circumstances, it probably behaves a little different than Noctis itlself and this istance of Westos is the proof.
Of course, as other weirdness discovered in the past, the actual behaviour of Noctis seems to be the "wrong" one : P
If someone was able to read the asm in Noctis and understand how exactly this is happening...

See you in the next episode of:
Random knowledge which only Skinnymon and neuzd are interested in,
proudly and loudly brought to you by Skinnymon and neuzd! (TM)


[EDIT]
Life in Feltyrion is never boring, but we like it spicier, right?
└> last changed by Neuzd on March 22, 2010 at 20:00
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