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written by Ees33 on Feb 28, 2010 05:04
I saw this post on an old thread here:

Kynreeve said:
Noctis will always be awesome, but games are changing as days pass by. IV is playable for the moment but tommorow... Have you seen Infinity? The game itself is second-grade (IMHO), but the engine... 6 years of development, A LOT of spare time, hudreds of sleepless nights spent on what you guys are just planning to do.. When i see this fact, it makes me think that V needs absolutely different approach.
First one should remember that Noctis I-IV was also developed over many years and sleepless nights as well (indeed, that it was developed at night is apparently the real origin of the name "Noctis" for the game. Not because it is in space, which has stars, but because it was developed at night!). Looking over it, it appears the major difference between the Noctis project and the Infinity project is the latter has a TEAM, while the former is done by a single person. To really get a good "Super Noctis" program would appear to require multiple people to work on it. And they need to be all willing to give it away for free And make it a single-player game And a totally peaceful one, too, where all the excitement comes from the sheer wonderfulness of the Universe, or at least as much as we can capture in our little digital can
written by Cryoburner on Feb 28, 2010 08:09
Uh... okay. We already have that. It's what the 'Noctis sequel HQ' section is for. It's just been progressing a little slowly. : P

Infinity does have a number of people working on art assets, like 3D models and textures, though I believe most of the actual programming is being done by one guy. That's a large reason why Infinity's development is taking so long. Noctis probably doesn't require nearly as much pre-generated content, so there's less need for such a team.

Of course, one thing that helps infinity, graphics-wise, is that it makes use of 3D hardware acceleration, while Alex's current plans for Noctis V are still to keep everything software-rendered on the CPU. That's bound to limit Noctis V's level of graphical detail to some extent, and make the graphics engine programming more challenging, but perhaps that might just mean lower screen resolutions and framerates than what you might expect in a modern game.

Infinity is looking pretty nice though. Its gameplay focus seems to be more on being something of an Elite clone, though it's still a game I'd like to try when it's eventually released. I'm guessing it probably won't have any sort of beta release until at least next year though, at the earliest.
i do my own stun-- avatars
written by Albeyamakiir on Feb 28, 2010 08:23
Actually, I think the major difference is far more than just the "team" thing, but: goals, story, NPCs, other PCs, money and combat. I really think that Infinity and Noctis can not really be compared to each other. Sure, they both procedurally make a galaxy, but beyond that, there isn't much that's similar...

As for needing a team to do "Super Noctis" (although that sounds like a SNES game ) in this case, I think you'd only need lots of people if you need lots of skills. Like a modeller, programmer (that one's Alex), sound guy, effects, and so on. Either way, I don't think Alex would like that.
absent more than alex
written by Shadowlord on Mar 01, 2010 20:00
Cryoburner said:
Uh... okay. We already have that. It's what the 'Noctis sequel HQ' section is for. It's just been progressing a little slowly. : P
You have quite a talent for understatement there.
i do my own stun-- avatars
written by Albeyamakiir on Mar 02, 2010 08:25
Actually, that's a point. Maybe people are not interested in really doing much about NT because we already have NIV and NV is on it's way (by 2012, maybe kinda sorta ).

I think NT needs a different focus. Still something vast for the purpose of exploring, but maybe under a different set of rules. Like, for example, inverse sphere "planets", in an infinite block of underground, connected by tunnles. I'd play that.
written by Cryoburner on Mar 02, 2010 09:23
Albeyamakiir said:
I think NT needs a different focus. Still something vast for the purpose of exploring, but maybe under a different set of rules. Like, for example, inverse sphere "planets", in an infinite block of underground, connected by tunnles. I'd play that.
That is absolutely crazy that you mention that, because I was thinking the exact same thing when writing my last post in this thread. I was contemplating starting a thread suggesting such an inversion in the Noctis Sequel HQ section once I had some better ideas on things like how to better interconnect and travel between the pocket worlds. It's incredibly weird that you came up with the same idea, in the same thread.

The idea also came to me when thinking of solutions to that problem, that it might be weird to have two competing versions of Noctis. The inverse universe concept would also provide something totally unique from what's found in other procedural universes, allowing it to stand on its own, and be able to coexist with Alex's future versions of Noctis. You could also do unique things with physics and environments that would defy expectations, and allow for many surprises throughout the course of exploration.

Seeing how two of us thought of this, I think it's too good to pass up. I definitely wouldn't mind seeing Noctis: Twilight turn into such a project. We'd probably want to call it something else though. : )
i haz title: speed-g-dof
written by Speeder on Mar 02, 2010 16:19
What if we make the biggest dungeon ever? I mean, a ridicously big "nethack" with focus on exploration (instead of dieing in funny ways...)
doing pushups
written by Megagun on Mar 02, 2010 16:45
Or, alternatively, craft the inside of a sphere out of triangles, and have every triangle be the surface of a world in itself (much like Noctis is currently). The entire sky is thus made out of all the worlds in the universe. It would be like a giant dyson sphere the size of a galaxy!
i haz title: speed-g-dof
written by Speeder on Mar 02, 2010 17:02
Just a sphere that has the area of all noctis worlds summed? And looks like a inverted planet, that we can walk around freely? It sounds cool too...
i do my own stun-- avatars
written by Albeyamakiir on Mar 03, 2010 10:57
Cryoburner said:
It's incredibly weird that you came up with the same idea, in the same thread.
Ah, sorry. I have had the idea for ages. I was just looking for a good time to bring it up, as a way to buy time while I decided if I wanted to keep the idea for myself. But, since my expertise does not lie in graphics (to put it mildly), It would not be a good idea for me to try this on my own.

Although, now that I think about it, I need an excuse to learn C++ (probably can't be hired without the skill ) so I could have a crack at some of the systems for this. Good general programming practise, too.
ah didn't learn anything!
written by Selbio on Mar 03, 2010 17:22
Albeyamakiir said:
Actually, that's a point. Maybe people are not interested in really doing much about NT because we already have NIV and NV is on it's way (by 2012, maybe kinda sorta ).
Or maybe because there's a whole community expecting Someone Else to do all the actual work, using the community's mandated language and libraries, and implementing every half-baked idea the community has.
written by Eurysilas on Mar 03, 2010 19:47
Selbio said:
Or maybe because there's a whole community expecting Someone Else to do all the actual work, using the community's mandated language and libraries, and implementing every half-baked idea the community has.


(No offense, guys, but that was one hell of a point.)
written by Cryoburner on Mar 07, 2010 22:41
Many members here don't have experience programming in any language, so obviously their only real ability to contribute, in at least the early stages, would be with formulating ideas. There's nothing wrong with brainstorming ideas, and I doubt anyone expects everything to get implemented.

I do think the stream of polls for every minute technical decision was excessive though, and did little but delay anyone from starting much of anything. My thoughts from the start were that it's probably better to wing it in the beginning, and sort out the details later. If that means re-coding significant portions of the program, so be it. At least there'll be a program to re-code. : ) It's meant to be something of a side project, after all, and if people don't find it fun, they'll work on something else in their free time instead.

In any case, I don't think anyone would expect the prior polls to have much bearing now. The discussions can be good, to show the benefits and familiarity of working with various languages and such, but if someone wants to put together a tech demo or begin work on an initial engine, they shouldn't have to worry about the specifics of how others would prefer things done.
doing pushups
written by Megagun on Mar 08, 2010 16:26
Indeed. At the time, I lacked some technical skills to actually start working on it and implementing things. Now that I might have a chance of actually getting something done, I've started my own projects which require enough of my time that I don't want to bother with N:T again, and I know others (like SL) are facing the same thing.

The sudden drop of interest from everyone didn't really help, either, and if I had anything to 'blame' for the lack of currently written code, it's that sudden drop of epic interest from the community.
i do my own stun-- avatars
written by Albeyamakiir on Mar 09, 2010 11:48
So, really, there should be a spark to set people off. Like someone doing actual code. But then again, that one person may end up doing all the work. Which is discouraging, unless said person makes it their own project, thus making it not N:T or whatever it ends up being called.

Interesting problem. There are a surprising number of odds against this actually getting afloat. */me thinks for a bit...*
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