. /../Fine approach becoming slower?/ 12
written by Eggofawesome on Aug 26, 2016 21:57
When I visited a few planets, it only took a minute or so for each. Now, it takes that same amount of time to travel 0.01 Dyams. Is this normal? It's in the same solar system too. (S02)
r'lyeh sweet r'lyeh
written by Neuzd on Aug 26, 2016 22:07
I seem to remember that it is normal.
When that happened to me, I usually used to fly back to the star (as in reaching the system for the first time) and select the object I want to approach from there.
Just keep an eye on your lithium reserve.
written by Eggofawesome on Aug 27, 2016 17:10
That doesn't seem to be working for me, all I get is "breaking". And it simply stays at that speed. I even flew to other stars and back, but alas: breaking is all fine approach does.
r'lyeh sweet r'lyeh
written by Neuzd on Aug 27, 2016 17:15
Well, you could try something different (but conceptually identical) like traveling to a more distant planet and then back to the one you originally intended.
Otherwise, if tinkering with the distances doesn't work (but it sounds very strange to me) you just have to wait.
going nowhere fast...
written by Skinnymon on Aug 28, 2016 01:44
Eggofawesome is running Noctis using DOSBox, im3cr.

I am wondering if he's got the "Maximize Cycles" setting on. That and "Core" set to "Dynamic" seem to be of vital importance. but what would I know. I have to troglodyte everything...

[It doesn't hurt to ask.]

lost, not forgotten
written by Alex on Oct 12, 2016 16:44
If it's a very distant planet (within the context of interplanetary distances, like 80+ Dyams), it's at least in part how the Vimana drive works inside a stellar system. The drive ideally works by expanding space between the drifter and an "anchor point" on the other side, but the pointing mechanism isn't infinitely precise. If the target is pretty far, the path to the target needs to be highly precise, and the drive shows difficulties in keeping the "anchor point" within the opposite half of the active volume of the Vimana field. The game renders that in the form of a difficult, very slow and Lithium-consuming approach.

What to do? If possible, travel to an intermediate target, a planet between your actual position and the intended target, then proceed to the distant target from there, i.e. split an 80-Dyam trip into a couple portions of - say - 30 and 50. But I guess it wouldn't always be possible as there may be no suitable targets in-between. Traveling back to the star can probably still help because the star is in the middle of the planetary system, so if your target happens to be on the other edge of the system, it'll probably reduce the distance.

But in some cases I'd just give up or get ready to invest patience to visit a distant target... at least you know it's not actually a bug: it's a known consequence of the dynamics propelling the drifter.
written by Logicalerror on Oct 12, 2016 20:56
I've also wondered whether this was a bug or a feature. Thanks for the explanation!
going nowhere fast...
written by Skinnymon on Oct 13, 2016 00:01
So, Alex. The Fine Approach (r58 again after you select the planet) is the same as Vimana Drive (r57)? I thought that Fine Approach was merely like (forgive me the analogy with Star Trek) Impulse Power, and Vimana Drive was like Warp Drive.
sputter! putt! putt!

Though it may explain the same phenomenon- without DOSBox- when I have noticed it in Multiple Star (S08) systems. Sometimes, there you may actually be able to see the target planet (for example, M01 orbiting the companion star P01, supposedly a few dyams away) and it takes a verrrry long time to travel to that world- even engaging the local drive takes a while. I always put this down as a "gravitational effect" of some sort. Particularly if the system has a number of close by companion stars. Though the problem you describe does make sense. IM3CR, targeting elsewhere and returning to the intended target does work sometimes.

[Though my thought was, in Eggofawesome's case there may have a bit of a problem with emulator settings. NIV runs on the DOSBox, but a little bit of lag can be normal.]

lost, not forgotten
written by Alex on Oct 13, 2016 07:07
Skinnymon said:
So, Alex. The Fine Approach (r58 again after you select the planet) is the same as Vimana Drive (r57)? I thought that Fine Approach was merely like (forgive me the analogy with Star Trek) Impulse Power, and Vimana Drive was like Warp Drive.
sputter! putt! putt!
Nope, it's still Vimana propulsion, i.e. what most would once call "quintessence" and, in recent years, "dark energy". The drifter ideally does almost everything it does thanks to that field, including protecting itself from wandering bodies and interplanetary dust, even while it isn't used for propulsion.

While all of what follows is only ideal, and roughly simulated (not actually happening inside the program) as a slowdown, the difference in the magnitude of apparent velocities between interstellar and interplanetary travel, there, is a consequence of anchor points' apparent size in both cases: while moving between stars the drive can pick anchors between a wider range of objects, because the path it has to travel is "wider" (the target itself, which is the vicinity of a star, is pretty big), and that translates to much more effective propulsion.

Maybe a simple analogy could help: moving by means of the Vimana drive would be a lot like pointing a magic, infinitely extensible, stick to a fixed object and then pushing yourself back as the stick "extends" behind you. The bigger the object you push against, the easier it is to keep the growing stick pointed at it without its tip slipping off the anchor mass (because the tip itself does not grow along with the length of the stick, it covers just enough to match the cross-section of the drifter). The drive's decreasing efficiency when confronting long interstellar or interplanetary trips is therefore a limitation of the pointing mechanism that keeps the other end of the field's active volume, which is the "tip of the stick", inside the visible area of the anchor mass. The narrower the target, the harder it is to get there efficiently, without having to switch (automatically) between several different anchors. The slowdown would ultimately be the on-board computer trying to keep the field pointed at an appropriate anchor to push against, and always less likely to succeed, if not for short periods of time.

Skinnymon said:
Though it may explain the same phenomenon- without DOSBox- when I have noticed it in Multiple Star (S08) systems. Sometimes, there you may actually be able to see the target planet (for example, M01 orbiting the companion star P01, supposedly a few dyams away) and it takes a verrrry long time to travel to that world- even engaging the local drive takes a while. I always put this down as a "gravitational effect" of some sort. Particularly if the system has a number of close by companion stars. Though the problem you describe does make sense. IM3CR, targeting elsewhere and returning to the intended target does work sometimes.
It is admittedly a counter-intuitive effect, and I'm not sure I was so clever putting that in at all, but it was so many years ago... I thought there should be limitations or special cases to enforce the fictional physics behind Noctis' FTL propulsion, I thought it'd give it more credibility or something.

Skinnymon said:
[Though my thought was, in Eggofawesome's case there may have a bit of a problem with emulator settings. NIV runs on the DOSBox, but a little bit of lag can be normal.]
Well, at least now he's aware of both possible causes. So he knows if the target is pretty far, it might be nothing to do with DOSBox's settings...
written by Eggofawesome on Nov 06, 2016 18:32
Yes I have got "maximize Cycles" and whatnot on. I'd tested earlier today after a long absence, and even at 0.32 dyams it just stayed breaking and taking its sweet little time.

I've decided to sent an outbox and just re-install.
going nowhere fast...
written by Skinnymon on Nov 06, 2016 18:47
too bad you can't share the coordinates... Parsis only knows that the ol' Admiral loves to investigate phenomena like this.


right, neuzd?
r'lyeh sweet r'lyeh
written by Neuzd on Nov 06, 2016 19:04
Maybe he did a backup, and his current.bin is still available for him...
Or even if it isn't, maybe not all hope is lost, because in the outbox he sent there's an S02 whose GUIDE entry says: A WHITE DWARF STAR WITH MULTIPLE UNNAMED PLANETS.

If it's not in some weird place, triceratops will eventually extract the coordinates...
I'll compile the inbox in these days. It's been more than 2 years and even if it's less than 3k, I should release an update.
written by Eggofawesome on Nov 06, 2016 19:16
I HAD the current.bin, but I moved a few times so it got changed. As for the S02 mentioned, that and the one I named before it should be the ones. If I recall, the first time it happened was at a star named Lumino if that helps.
r'lyeh sweet r'lyeh
written by Neuzd on Nov 06, 2016 21:32
MUNUS (S02) 1687856;4844923;-1333565
LUMINO I (S02) 2056784;4810337;-1427030

As these are taken straight from starmap 2 I'm pretty sure the Y is reversed, so in both case it "should" be a negative value.

If no one (it's just one) has anything to add, I'll publish this update...
going nowhere fast...
written by Skinnymon on Nov 07, 2016 00:36
Read you, A-OK!

As they used to say long ago in a galaxy far, far, away... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-ok

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. /../Fine approach becoming slower?/ 12
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